So great speaking to Leah McLaren about her brilliant memoir, Where You End and I Begin, and the pitfalls of being the child of a boundary-less parent.
I really enjoyed and appreciated both of your takes. It occurs to me that although there there were some memoirs from childhoods in that era that came out 15-20 years ago, these represent a new thing: writing by people who have time to grow a little older than in the first round of writing, and to have thought about it longer. I’m selfishly glad of it as I write a little in that vein myself, and it’s nice not to feel alone in that.
So enlightening, thank you! I find that balance between the wonderful and the joyous, alongside the traumas, fascinating.
And I think the themes you discuss here are transferable to other situations where there is any sort of power dynamic - in my case, the story of my husband's cancer survivorship journey, and I'm grappling with how to write about some errors and delays that occurred. I want to discuss the errors as important themes in healthcare, especially that doctors are human, but I fear being seen as 'biting the hand that feeds' as I am so grateful to the caregivers too, as in the end they saved his life. It's so tricky writing these parts!
So tricky. Hence the number of upset people involved. I hope you resolve your situation and find a way of writing about it. Thank you for your sensitive feedback
Thanks – a reallly interesting listen. I thought the point towards the end that Leah made was really pertinent: why should women be villified or cancelled for something that men do all the time. Also the point that cancellation can affect someone's artistic legacy (eg whether they appear on a curriculum or reading list), and is that fair? Thought provoking, thank you.
This is such a brilliant discussion, thank you both. There is so much for me to consider from it in relation to my own memoir project.
To address the Alice Munrow discussion, I became so engrossed in trying to order my thoughts in a reply that I missed my iPad battery was empty! So this is take two…
While Alice Munroe was in no way responsible for her husband’s abuse of her daughter, she did in my opinion, become accountable one she became aware, and made the decision to stay with him - citing her age and love for him while understandable does call into question her own morals in this instance.
Having made that choice though, as adults, mother and daughter are on an equal footing, with equal rights. We can’t cancel the daughter out by wanting her to not speak about her experiences, for fear of cancelling Alice Monroe. Her work can still be judged on it’s merit. But, with this knowledge of her human flaws and weaknesses, perhaps a more nuanced interpretation of her and her writing, is now possible, even if she is slightly less stable on her pedestal.
I agree about the nuanced interpretation. I feel the humanness of artists just makes them more human and their work in many ways more interesting. It doesn't mean what they do in their private life is right, though.
I totally agree, they are fully accountable, and any impacted by their choices are entitled to speak about their experiences. I completely agree with you too Lily that the decision to have children means parents have a duty of care, yet as the unprotected daughter of incredibly flawed parents, I love that you both talked about how much you gained too.
I was utterly riveted by this conversation, start to finish. I haven't published a memoir yet, but a Substack post I wrote about my father earlier this year put a bomb under my family of origin, and prompted responses that I'd never have predicted and I'm still reeling from. What a fascinating conversation on the ethics of writing subjective accounts of your own history, and the reasons why we feel compelled to tell the stories of our own pasts and the relationships that formed us. I'll be watching it again and taking notes!
Thank you, I feel memoir is the writing I need to do but the thought of it then being read by those involved…. Who I still live physically close to and whose neighbours have their own version of ‘my’ ‘our’ story. Also that conflict at the end (I had not heard of Alice Monroe). I have listened while on a train journey, which is also a joy.
Thank you for listening. The whole stepping into others stories and publishing our intimate lives is so very tricky, but i do think finding our own parameters regarding this is part of the process.
This was such a joy!
This was a really, really good discussion — thank you both.
My absolute pleasure. Lily has such a nimble and nuanced mind...
I really enjoyed and appreciated both of your takes. It occurs to me that although there there were some memoirs from childhoods in that era that came out 15-20 years ago, these represent a new thing: writing by people who have time to grow a little older than in the first round of writing, and to have thought about it longer. I’m selfishly glad of it as I write a little in that vein myself, and it’s nice not to feel alone in that.
Thank you for listening
So enlightening, thank you! I find that balance between the wonderful and the joyous, alongside the traumas, fascinating.
And I think the themes you discuss here are transferable to other situations where there is any sort of power dynamic - in my case, the story of my husband's cancer survivorship journey, and I'm grappling with how to write about some errors and delays that occurred. I want to discuss the errors as important themes in healthcare, especially that doctors are human, but I fear being seen as 'biting the hand that feeds' as I am so grateful to the caregivers too, as in the end they saved his life. It's so tricky writing these parts!
don’t be afraid of nuance and complication, that’s my advice!
Thank you! I’ll bear that in mind!
So tricky. Hence the number of upset people involved. I hope you resolve your situation and find a way of writing about it. Thank you for your sensitive feedback
Thanks – a reallly interesting listen. I thought the point towards the end that Leah made was really pertinent: why should women be villified or cancelled for something that men do all the time. Also the point that cancellation can affect someone's artistic legacy (eg whether they appear on a curriculum or reading list), and is that fair? Thought provoking, thank you.
Totally agree Wendy. The conversation with Leah really helped me see the whole cancel culture in a new light. Thank you so much for listening
This is such a brilliant discussion, thank you both. There is so much for me to consider from it in relation to my own memoir project.
To address the Alice Munrow discussion, I became so engrossed in trying to order my thoughts in a reply that I missed my iPad battery was empty! So this is take two…
While Alice Munroe was in no way responsible for her husband’s abuse of her daughter, she did in my opinion, become accountable one she became aware, and made the decision to stay with him - citing her age and love for him while understandable does call into question her own morals in this instance.
Having made that choice though, as adults, mother and daughter are on an equal footing, with equal rights. We can’t cancel the daughter out by wanting her to not speak about her experiences, for fear of cancelling Alice Monroe. Her work can still be judged on it’s merit. But, with this knowledge of her human flaws and weaknesses, perhaps a more nuanced interpretation of her and her writing, is now possible, even if she is slightly less stable on her pedestal.
I agree about the nuanced interpretation. I feel the humanness of artists just makes them more human and their work in many ways more interesting. It doesn't mean what they do in their private life is right, though.
I totally agree, they are fully accountable, and any impacted by their choices are entitled to speak about their experiences. I completely agree with you too Lily that the decision to have children means parents have a duty of care, yet as the unprotected daughter of incredibly flawed parents, I love that you both talked about how much you gained too.
I was utterly riveted by this conversation, start to finish. I haven't published a memoir yet, but a Substack post I wrote about my father earlier this year put a bomb under my family of origin, and prompted responses that I'd never have predicted and I'm still reeling from. What a fascinating conversation on the ethics of writing subjective accounts of your own history, and the reasons why we feel compelled to tell the stories of our own pasts and the relationships that formed us. I'll be watching it again and taking notes!
So glad it was helpful Michelle! It's such a minefield, but Leah is so interesting on it. I was so pleased to be able to interview her
really looking forward to listening to this sistas!!!
Thank you, I feel memoir is the writing I need to do but the thought of it then being read by those involved…. Who I still live physically close to and whose neighbours have their own version of ‘my’ ‘our’ story. Also that conflict at the end (I had not heard of Alice Monroe). I have listened while on a train journey, which is also a joy.
Thank you for listening. The whole stepping into others stories and publishing our intimate lives is so very tricky, but i do think finding our own parameters regarding this is part of the process.
A fantastic and interesting watch - thanks so much for sharing.
Thank you for watching!
Thanks both of you for presenting all the complex issues around memoir writing...